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.Manufacturers, models - stencils and serial numbers

 

' Martin Handcraft '   1931

Vintage bronze lacquer, late model. Good player  1931,  s/no 104xxx  - literally the last of the C-Melody line, lovely !!  I don't have a good enough camera to capture the real dark vintage lacquer colour - it's gorgeous. 

Modern action, gone are the quirky vintage forked Eb and G# trill keys.  High palm keys all sensibly long - no more  'button' palm keys.  Add to that the essential auxiliary Front-F mechanism, and you have a C-Melody and this is a delight to play.  Intonation is extremely good - a solid powerful horn with well preserved Martin case and accessories.     NOT FOR SALE

Lyon & Healy 'Inspiration'

( King stencil - relatively rare)  

I affectionately call her 'Big Ugly'. Very much a project and a half.......  Quite a rare beast this one, I've only seen one other for sale.  After Lyon & Healy stopped making their own C-Mels - based around Martin design/tooling - they had stencils mostly made by Buescher.  This is the more elusive King stencil, with classic King domed cups, and, more importantly, the auxiliary Front-F mechanism - a rare find on stencil horns. The silver plating is almost completely worn  or abraded from the body, but some remains on the keys - giving a two-tone appearance.  A real workhorse. A current project, at the moment, regrettably  NOT FOR SALE.

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.Please note : Page (always) under re-structuring... - June 2011 

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The aim of this page is to (hopefully) help you to identify the manufacturer, and even possibly the 'build year' of your C-Melody.  I know you could look on the bell and say  "Ah - Martin", but sadly that doesn't apply to stencils.    So, the table on the right will have links to a pages showing a selection of C-Melody saxes, some I've owned, some I still do, and with the mechanism and design features of each manufacturer - the pictures are quite good resolution, and unprotected, so can be copied and pasted into a suitable graphics package for better viewing, e.g. zooming.  Please feel free to do this, but if you re-use the pictures in any other context, please ask me first, and I'd also appreciate a mention of this site.  

Rather than put 'return' links on each page, I've either opened some in a new window, or others require the use of your browser 'back arrow' to get back to this page.  It will take a while to find examples showing all the differences, and I hope to be able to make a 'truth table' as well, for quick checking and identification.  Until then, please follow this link to my Q&A page, and check out the excellent pages by Saxpics, Dr Rick, and Cybersax, to identify which manufacturer built your stencil.

Sadly, e.g., all Martin stencils don't have all the standard Martin features etc. etc.  And, some Stencil names appear on saxes from more than one manufacturer ! Fun, isn't it ?  I'm still learning a few things myself in the process.  A far from comprehensive list of Stencil names is at the end of the page - link is on the table opposite - and I'll also set up a gallery of pictures of C-Melody saxes I've owned in the past, as examples of most manufacturers art.  The vast majority of the pictures were taken by (and owned by) me, but, if I've inadvertently used someone else's example, I sincerely apologise - drop me an email and I'll either credit you, or if you so wish I'll remove the picture.

Below are short lists of serial numbers for the years ( mostly up to the thirties ) that C-Melody saxes were produced 'in quantity'. I thought it would be useful to have them for all the C-Melody manufacturers together in one place (and in alphabetical order, not preference...).  Links to pages with more comprehensive serial number listings, and further model info, are included with each list, as are references to the origins of the data.  I'd just like to say a great big " Thanks ! " to anyone involved in compiling and/or publishing those lists - very much appreciated !!

Please note that C-Melody 'stencil' serial numbers don't usually correspond with the relevant manufacturers 'own brand name' sequences - there are some theories as to how you can work the date out, but I'm afraid the answer is usually just  " made in the 1920's... "

Also be aware that the serial numbers below weren't just for C-Melody saxes, each instrument produced was assigned a sequential unique number, so (for example) in Jan-1924,  60993 could have been a Tenor Sax, 60994 a C-Mel, 60995 a Soprano, etc. etc. - at least that's how I understand it ?  Thinking about that, it's probably more logical that the numbers were assigned in 'blocks' to maybe a group C-Mel's, then alto's etc. for a certain production run. Each group of bodies could then be stamped sequentially. Anybody out there know how it really was ?  

So anyway,  you should also be able to use these lists to date some of the vintage saxes of that period.

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Please note : Page (always) under re-structuring... - June 2011 

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A C-Sax may be available for purchase - email me

Please note - the following links are to pictures of, and information about,  C-Melody Saxophones that either I've owned/sold, or as supplied by other owners/sellers.  Some of the text may not now be relevant - I am slowly editing the pages as I find corrections are needed - the information is provided here just for reference.  Please enjoy !

quick stencil identification (coming... )

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Buescher  (below) Conn  (below) Martin  (below)

'23 Two-Tone   '27 GOLD

Conn   (straight/alto style neck)

'20's  The Martin
'25 - lacquer / amber rollers Conn  (curved/tenor style neck) '30's  Martin Handcraft

another '25 - beautiful Bare Brass !

Masterbilt <Conn Stencils> Pan American

Horace - Martin stencil

and a * '25/26 in Silver Plate


Ditson <Buescher stencils> Lyon & Healy

King  (below)

Lyon & Healy - their American Professional

King - Silver plate (needs cleaning...)
 Lyon & Healy - their Couturier
.King Stencil - Lyon & Healy
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Couesnon   < new 2008 

Evette & Schaeffer  ( Buffet Crampon )

Hawkes and Son    < new 2008

Holton 
Kohlert
Holton - Wiedoeft model Oscar - Adler     Selmer  Modele 22
 Thibouville-Lamy
Selmer Cigar Cutter - they exist !
York Vito  Weril  ( Brazil )

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  Click here for a list of some of the many 'Stencil' names

Please note : Page (always) under re-structuring... - June 2011  

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Just a selection of serial number lists - many more available on the internet...

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Buescher                            

 1915     25103 
1916     28875 
1917     32350 
1918     37540 
1919     46975 
1920     61255 
1921     78525 
1922     99275 
1923   125750 
1924   150250 
1925   175275 
1926    202350 
1927    222175 
1928    235250 
1929    275275 
1930    255250 
1931    260125 
1932    264025 
1933    265523 

( courtesy of - http://www.coolsax.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/serialnos.HTM#Buescher )

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Conn

30,000 - 1914
35,000 - 1916
40,000 - 1917
50,000 - 1919
58,000 - 1920
64,000 - 1921
83,000 - 1922
101,775 - 1923
124,600 - 1924
145,400 - 1925
167,900 - 1926
193,450 - 1927
209,250 - 1928
224,600 - 1929
237,800 - 1930
244,700 - 1931
249,230 - 1932
256,501 - 1933

( courtesy of - http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/madchester/rave/360/conn_serial.html )

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Evette & Schaeffer  ( Buffet Crampon )

19500     17.09.1910 
20000     21.01.1911 
20500     02.03.1912 
21000     11.05.1912 
21500     20.11.1912 
22000     30.07.1913 
22500     11.07.1914 
23000     08.06.1916 
23500     17.01.1917 
24000     18.03.1919 
24500     27.03.1920 
25000     09.07.1921 
26000     14.10.1922 
26500     04.08.1923 
27000     31.05.1924 
27500     15.11.1924 
28000     11.07.1925 
29000     25.09.1926 

( courtesy of - http://saxwelt.de/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=61&meid=66 )

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Holton

1         1901 
254     1902 
476     1903 
526     1904 
1151     1905 
1872     1906 
3345     1907 
4630     1908 
6071     1909 
9474     1910 
12,402     1911 
15,950     1912 
20,807     1913 
21,100     1914 

31,622     1915 
33,671     1916 
37,909     1917 
(note- interleaving number changes
41,070 - 43,972 1918 
55,000 - 55,249 1918 
43,973 - 47,600 1919 
55,250 - 57,040 1919 
47,601 - 49,817 1920 
57,041 - 58,499 1920 
70,000 - 70,549 1920 
49,818 - 54,999 1921 
58,500 - 59,499 1921 
70,550 - 73,199 1921 
59,500 - 60,599 1922 
73,200 - 76,099 1922 
60,600 - 61,649 1923 
76,100 - 81,000 1923 
61,650 - 62,199 1924 
81,001 - 85,600 1924 
62,200 - 62,899 1925 
85,900 - 89,849 1925 
62,900 - 63,149 1926 
89,850 - 92,799 1926 
63,150 - 63,299 1927 
92,800 - 97,199 1927 
63,300 - 63,549 1928 
97,200 - 101,399 1928 
63,550 - 63,849 1929 
101,400 - 105,199 1929 
63,850 - 64,049 1930 
105,200 - 108,399 1930 
64,050 - 64,149 1931 
108,400 - 111,049 1931 
111,099 - 113,899 1932 
113,990 - 114,999 1933 

( courtesy of - http://www.mouthpieceheaven.com/content/holton.htm )

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King / H N White

Note: - these serial numbers should be taken with a 'pinch of salt', the accuracy is doubtful.  I've heard from Joe Uebelacker, who has a King C-Melody s/no 34xxx. Going by the published serial numbers, this places it's age somewhere between 1893 and 1915 (helpful...)  However, on the same website there is an announcement that the "King C-Melody was introduced around 1916-1920" - in fact probably closer to 1920    Hrmmmmm.

       Date                 Serial Number 
1893-1915             1-50,000 
1915-1925         50,000-78,000 
1925-1930             78,001-126,000 
1930-1935             126,001-161,000 

( courtesy of - http://www.hnwhite.com/serial%20number%20sax.htm )

Note - it is rumoured, that from the 30's, King C-Mels were produced engraved as 'Cleveland'

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Martin

Serial#                     Year 
17221                     1919 
19482                     1920 
19933                     1921 
23781                     1921 
29942                     1922 
34838                     1923 
40644                     1924 
48489     152342 1925 
        54853                                     
67852     162852 1926 
        172051 
79254                     1927 
86687                     1928 
*192536     1027         1929 
*first digit dropped on most serial numbers 
98324     2982             1930 
101622     7119             1931 
105096                             1932 
106546                             1933 
108301                             1934 
10758     111253             1935 
14526     116551             1936 

( courtesy of - http://www.mouthpieceheaven.com/content/serials.htm  Theo Wanne )

- and a 'simpler' list -

Serial Number & Year Manufactured     ---     Serial Number & Year Manufactured 
17,221 1919     ---     19,482 1920 
23,781 1921     ---     29,942 1922 
34,838 1923     ---     40,644 1924 
48,489 1925     ---     67,852 1926 
79,254 1927     ---     86,687 1928 
92,536 1929     ---     98,324 1930 
101,622 1931     ---     105,096 1932 
106,546 1933     ---     108,301 1934 
111,253 1935     ---     116,551 1936 

( courtesy of -  http://www.musictrader.com/martin.html )

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Selmer - Paris 

( Not 'Selmer - New York', which is a US stencil )

Year Model Serial Number
     
1922 Model 22 750-1400
1923   1401-2350
1924   2351-3350
1925   3351-4450
     
1926 Model 26 4451-5600
1927   5601-7850
1928   7851-9700
1929   9701-11950
     
1930 "Cigar Cutter"/"Super Sax" 11951-14000
1931 14001-15750
1932   15751-17250
1933   17251-18700

The list continues right up to 1992, so is well worth a visit - link below

( courtesy of -  http://www.selmer.com/content/selmerparis/saxophones/serial_no.php )

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York

Serial Numbers                         Comments
0 - 8497                       Made prior to 1903
                8500 - 57,000                 Made between 1903 and 1913
       57,000 - 112,000               Made between 1913-1938

 

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Please note : Page (always) under re-structuring... - June 2011 

A few Stencil names - ( I'm sure there are loads more out there..... )

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American Professional - Lyon & Healy A Buescher stencil, and earlier their 'own' Martin hybrid - see 'Note 1' below
Beaumont American , Chicago
Bettoney my 'spares' C-Mel, definitely Martin,  also made by Conn  (thanks to Richard Brown)
Bruno Seen as a Conn stencil, with 'mercedes' low C guard - curved neck.
Carl Fischer Importer, Buescher Stencil, also 'badged ' Evette & Schaeffer ( Buffet Crampon )
Champion Seen as a Conn stencil, with 'mercedes' low C guard - curved neck.
Concertone
Couturier - Lyon & Healy  This was, I think, one of Lyon & Healy's earlier 'own' horns
C R Peronze Agents for York
Ditson ( Oliver) Musical Instrument dealer/supplier
Elkhart  Buescher and/or Martin  - the name was used later for  50's Buescher saxes
Elkhorn - Holton Not really a stencil, Holton's C-Melody, but I've seen them listed as such.
Gretsch The one I've got is a Buescher stencil
Jenkins / Kankas Seen as a Buescher stencil
Harwood Professional Seen as a Buescher stencil
Horace / Landay Bros. NY I had one - a Martin Stencil
Inspiration - Lyon & Healy also engraved Lyon & Healy, their own ? - see 'Note 1' below
Kalashen / J Kalashen Seen as a Buescher stencil
Lyon & Healy Made some of their own - see 'Note 1' below
Masterbilt I've fleetingly had one, made by Conn
Pan American Conn's own stencil, great sax !    Curved (tenor style) neck
Perfection /  Bruno  also seen as Perfakten / Perfacktone , on other saxes as well
Selmer American - New York Conn stencil, has 'mercedes' low C guard
Silva-Lae / Naujoks McLaughlin - who also made a great 'silver-lay' C-Melody mouthpiece
Winterroth Conn stencil, curved (tenor style) neck
Wurlitzer Seen as Buescher , Conn , and Martin stencils

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Note 1 - Lyon & Healy either made, designed, or commissioned their 'own' C-Melody saxes at the start of the era, from parts seemingly supplied by the major manufacturers.  Typically those 'own' models have a strange mix of the Martin body (with bevelled tone-holes), but with the Conn 'mercedes' low C guard, and either a Martin style neck (straight brace) or a Conn style neck (curved brace).  (but) I've also seen one 'Gretsch' stencil with the same mix........

Later Lyon & Healy C-Melody's were pure Buescher or Martin stencils.   King also produced a limited number of stencils engraved Lyon & Healy Inspiration, usefully with the aux-Front-F key, but without the 'double-G' cup.  I own one of those - it's my backup C-Mel, check out  Big Ugly , also featured at the top of this page.

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If I've forgotten anyone, or you find a more comprehensive set of serial numbers anywhere, please feel free to email me

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